Basement Wall - 2x4 or 2x2?
If I do choose to actually remodel the basement I was talking about earlier, should I use a 2x4 or 2x2? The foundation walls are in excellent shape, and from what I could see there is little to no water damage at all in the entire basement. I will be using a water sealing paint on the walls just to be safe, though. I plan an putting up drywall in the basement and would like to know if 2x2 strips would be fine instead of 2x4 studs. Thanks. You can use 2x2s but they might split as you screw the sheet rock. Even 2x3s might split. At least use 2x3s. There is really no money to be saved by going to anything less than 2x4 and you will have fewer problems when it comes to electrical fixtures (plugs, switches, etc) and running wires for electricity, computers and stereos and whatever in the future. I never met a person with a calibrated eye that can notice the loss of area. Dick Yeah, I was thinking the outlets might be a problem with the 2x2's. Since the basement is pretty much free from water problems (other than the occasional itty bitty leak, would I be okay using moisture/mildew/mold resistant dry wall for the space? Also, when I put up the framing for the walls, do I prepare the foundation with something? Vapor barrier? Insulation? If so, could you point my in the direction of a few good products and/or maybe even a video on YouTube showing the process? I would use metal studs if I was you and use fiberglass backed wall board to prevent mold from forming. As for insulation a closed cell foam insulation would be perfect for a basement renovation after your electrical inspection. Much more expensive and not a do it yourself job especially if you use blown in but definitely worth it over time as it will save you money over time and help prevent mold on the walls. I wish you luck Those itty, bitty leaks you mentioned will not be itty bitty problems if you use wood studs of any size and seal it up with drywall. You really should deal with the leaks first or you could be causing you and your family a world of problems when the mold develops. Wood is organic and dampness plus organics = mold. It is not a question of if, just how soon. Jim Well, I plan on completely cleaning and finishing the walls and floor with water sealer paint. Should I leave a gap between the wall and stud? I think before painting the walls you really need to see if there are any cracks in your foundation. If so use either cement if the crack is big or use a special caulk designed for cracks in foundation walls that are not real large. Make sure you clean your basement walls first and then do the caulking and painting. Wood studs like what you want to put up are easier to find and in some ways easier to deal with but as has been mentioned they are also organic in nature so if moisture ever does build up despite your best efforts you have mold. Also you need pressure treated in a basement in case you ever get termites. You can still do the same things with metal studs on the outer walls that you can do with wood and leave the wood studs to interior walls. As for insulation they also make foam closed cell insulation in board form that you can cut with a utility knife and really is better for damp areas just like the sprayed on kind only cheaper,that will also cut back on mold. I plan on going through these walls with a fine tooth comb, believe me. The room I'm doing is roughly 20x16. If you could throw out a rough estimate on the cost for insulation, and framing materials, I would greatly appreciate it. I'm just trying to plan all this out before I purchase anything. Paint on the walls stops the moisture only when it's already 95% of the way in. If you have leaks, they are best addressed outside before the water penetrates the structure at all. Personally, I'd fix the leaks before I even thought about finishing the basement. I'm not sure there are even leaks at all. I'm assuming there are because I like to prepare for the worst. From what I could see when I glanced around the foundation walls was they are in fantastic shape. However, things might come up that need to addressed as I dig deeper into the project. I haven't had much time at all to get into this because of work, but now I have a 4-5 day weekend to look forward to. -Edit- Another question. This room is shaped like an L with only three walls on the foundation. If I use metal studs on the walls on the foundation, would it be okay to use regular wood studs for the remaining walls? Using a pressure treated bottom stud in contact with the floor, of course. You are working with the right assumption, that there may be water. It can be from leaks, condensation, or overflowing sinks and washers. Your questions are all good about deal with them. Best practices would be to frame with a view to insulate somehow and avoid any condensation behind the drywall. If you want to use batts, you should put up a reversed housewrap on the exterior walls. This will allow the insulation to dry out through the walls. I would recommend a mineral wool type of insulation as it is not organic and will not support mold. The framing should never be in direct contact with concrete or block so you should start with a pressure treated 2 X 4 on a sill gasket, a minimum of 1/2 from the wall. The framing should go up and maintain the gap up to the top plate. This will allow you to get insulation behind the studs and create a thermal break. Don't forget to insulate up between the floor joists. Cover this with 6 mil poly as a vapor barrier and seal around any openings such as electrical boxes, etc. The vapour barrier should also be continued up between the floor joists. Cover this with mold resistant drywall and you have probably done the best possible job. If you decide to use spray foam instead (a really good option for basements) you can skip the house wrap and vapor barrier but should frame it the same way so the insulation can expand behind the studs. Chances are you are only going to do this once in this house so you might as well do the best possible job. As a DIYer, you are going to save a pile on labor costs so you might as well put some of those savings towards the best materials possible for your project. Good Luck with it and have fun! Jim Just going over the walls with a microscope many not be enough unless you are accustomed to building an inside-out pool. All the microscopes will do little in the end if you have not taken care of the exterior that collects moisture and lets it collect around and under the foundation. One of the most common points of water entry is lower level water that shows up at the joint between the slab and the wall. Because of the natural movement this point is very, very difficult to waterproof, Also the collected water can cause future hydrostatic pressure under the slab that can lead to future cracks. You probably have not been in your home long enough to see the annual cycles and possibilities. there are people in the NE that have been in their homes for 10 years before they tore out all of the major improvements made. A paint is NOT a waterproofer. Do you have any kind of subsurface water control (interior, exterior or both drain tile below the footings)? Any sump or method to remove below ground water? Dick With the vapor barrier, which would be the best method to install it? In the pictures, the vapor barrier would be the red line. Please note I did explode the picture a little. Obviously the floor would not be the far off the ground. I plan on having a laminate wood floor, with a dimpled plastic sub-floor material underneath. The drawings show that you do not know about the construction of a typical foundation. There is no footing used/shown and it is constructed in violation pf all standard practices. There is a difference between a vapor barrier and a barrier capable of being classified as a water proofing barrier or even being a part of a waterproofing system. A vapor barrier may just be a light weight film of 4 or 6 mil poly, depending on the arbitrary definition used in that locality. A vapor barrier is to just prevent vapor transmission and not required to prevent the passage of water. Certainly, this is no where near being classified as being a waterproofing barrier by any definition. It is time to go back to the Building Materials and Systems class 101 to find how things work. Dick Originally Posted by Concretemasonry The drawings show that you do not know about the construction of a typical foundation. There is no footing used/shown and it is constructed in violation pf all standard practices. There is a difference between a vapor barrier and a barrier capable of being classified as a water proofing barrier or even being a part of a waterproofing system. A vapor barrier may just be a light weight film of 4 or 6 mil poly, depending on the arbitrary definition used in that locality. A vapor barrier is to just prevent vapor transmission and not required to prevent the passage of water. Certainly, this is no where near being classified as being a waterproofing barrier by any definition. It is time to go back to the Building Materials and Systems class 101 to find how things work. Dick I never said I knew anything about the foundation footings of a house, or the construction for that fact - which is why I am here asking all the questions looking for input. I did not draw this as an exact representation of what the house was like. I guess I should have explicitly specified that the point I made the picture was for you to focus on the vapor barrier, and not the footing. The picture was put together to get an idea of what I would be looking to do. Does a vapor barrier ever go further than the bottom plate of a framed wall? I used this idea to continue the vapor barrier a few inches under the bottom of the floor, so if was WAS to ever leak, it would continue to go under the dimpled waterproof membrane sub-floor. -Edit- There is a working sump pump installed in this basement. As for not being in the house long enough, it's been in the family for over 60 years now. I think that's long enough to see some changes. Some good advice here. I advise no batt fiberglass insulation. Sprayed foam is nice but not very cheap. A good approach is 2 protruded foam from home depot or lowes and glue the sheets up with foam-specific glue, making large square patterns for the glue around the back of the foam. This gives you a foam that will never get soaking wet, never grow mold, and also does allow some degree of water permeation as desired for mild breath ability. Youcan read this stuff at building science.com --google it and basement insulation and you will get the links on that site. Go with 2x4 IMO. Don't use wood framing, it can rot and mold. Use a product like InSoFast, it is easier, insulates better, take up less room and can't rot. Never use pressure treated wood to frame. Use pt wood for the base plate and indigenous wood converted to blue wood for all framing including interior walls. Definitely do a 1/2 gap. 2 protruded foam insulation. Fiberglass backed drywall. Paint the walls with drylock first. You'll be fine.
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